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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Can I write a message to Elon Musk here? (No.)

A1: No. The "Talk:Elon Musk" page is not for writing messages to Musk. It is only for discussing changes to the Wikipedia article about him. Writing a message to Musk here is pointless and disruptive, and such messages will be removed as an improper use of the page.

Q2: Can you update the article to call Musk a "business magnet"? (No.)

A2: No. Musk once suggested in an interview that his Wikipedia article be changed to describe him as a "business magnet" rather than a magnate. The tone of that interview was not very serious; he also claimed to be an alien.^[1] Wikipedia doesn't have to do what Musk says, and this request has been made and declined dozens of times already. New requests may be removed without a response so that other discussions are not disrupted.

Q3: Should Musk be identified as South African in the opening sentence?

A3: Musk is a US citizen (since 2002) born and raised in South Africa, and also acquired Canadian citizenship via his mother. Including these nationalities in the opening sentence in a balanced way would be complex, and the consensus is that they should instead be explained later in the lead.

Q4: Can you change "Tesla CEO" to "Tesla Technoking"?

A4: No, because he is still CEO according to company records and that is a common corporate title that readers will understand, unlike "Technoking". The goal of the article is to inform people, which would be hindered by raising a confusing technicality.

Q5: Should the mention of Errol Musk having an interest in an emerald mine be removed in view of Elon's denials?

A5: While Elon today vehemently disputes any history with an emerald mine, he formerly accepted and even confirmed it. Specifically, a 2014 report originally printed in the San Jose Mercury News (and cited in the article) stated that Errol Musk had "a stake in" a mine. Elon affirmed his father's mine involvement in an interview with Jim Clash, a career interviewer of public figures, that was published by Forbes and withdrawn without explanation a few months later. Elon biographer Ashlee Vance likewise confirmed Errol's mining interest, with Elon's objections but not denials, in a 2020 interview report with Elon. Errol has stated that he received hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of emeralds from his dealings.

Q6: Should "Bachelor of Arts in Physics" be "Bachelor of Science" instead?

A6: No. Although it may seem counterintuitive, "Bachelor of Arts in Physics" is the degree that the University of Pennsylvania (among other schools) awards.

Q7: Should the article acknowledge doubts about Musk's academic record?

A7: Wikipedia policy on biographies of living persons requires that negative information about a person must be attributed to reliable published sources, and excludes both self-published sources (e.g. Twitter threads) and court trial records. The article states that sources disagree about when Musk obtained bachelor degrees, and that he did not attend Stanford for any significant amount of time. Any doubts beyond this require appropriate sources.

Q8: Why doesn't this article describe Musk as an engineer?

A8: Musk is chief engineer of SpaceX, a title that applies within the company and that the press regularly mentions. He is not a professional engineer, a distinction within engineering that carries certain legal privileges in the United States, nor has he completed an engineering training program, nor has he ever been hired as an engineer. The article therefore does not include any of these claims. It does note that, from time to time, Musk has made initial product proposals at his companies that his trained engineers then research and develop. He does hold IEEE Honorary Membership.

Q9: Why doesn't the article identify Musk as co-founder of PayPal?

A9: Because that could mislead readers that Musk was involved in the creation of the PayPal service and brand, when he was not. Instead, as the article states, he co-founded a company (X.com Corporation) that acquired the company that had developed PayPal (Confinity Inc.) and then renamed itself as PayPal, Inc.

Q10: Why does this page include criticism of Musk's actions and stances?

A10: Musk is criticized/praised a lot in many reliable sources, and as such we need to talk about these criticisms and praise. To quote from Wikipedia's policy on a neutral point of view, articles must represent "fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic."

Q11: Why is this a "good article" when some people consider Musk a bad person?

A11: "Good article" on Wikipedia refers to the way the article is written, not what kind of person Musk is. Good articles have been found to satisfy Wikipedia editorial standards for accuracy, verifiability and balanced presentation.

Q12: Why doesn't this page call Musk African American?

A12: African Americans are an ethnic group of Americans with total or partial ancestry from any of the Black racial groups of Africa. Reliable sources do not use this term to describe Musk.

References

^ "Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk". The Joe Rogan Experience. September 6, 2018. Event occurs at 9:53. Retrieved October 2, 2020 – via YouTube.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting.

Elon Musk is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination was archived. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Elon Musk has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
June 4, 2021	Good article nominee	Listed
July 24, 2021	Peer review	Not reviewed
August 23, 2022	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
November 1, 2022	Good article reassessment	Kept
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 15, 2021. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Elon Musk* lost $16.3 billion in a single day, the largest in the history of the* Bloomberg Billionaires Index?
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article

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Reference ideas for Elon Musk

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Breland, Ali (2024-08-20). "The Far Right Is Becoming Obsessed With Race and IQ". The Atlantic.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)

Elon Musk in popular culture was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 14 May 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Elon Musk. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

Isobel Asher Hamilton (December 23, 2019). "Elon Musk fact-checked his own Wikipedia page and requested edits including the fact he does 'zero investing'". Business Insider. Retrieved December 23, 2019.
Don Reisinger (December 23, 2019). "Elon Musk Took Issue With His Wikipedia Page, So He Asked the Community to Fix It. They Did". Inc. Retrieved December 23, 2019.
Sissi Cao (December 23, 2019). "Elon Musk Says His Wikipedia Page Is 'Insanely' Inaccurate". Observer. Retrieved December 27, 2019.
"Wikipedia locks Elon Musk's page after he 'begs' Twitter users to 'trash him' on site". The Tribune (Chandigarh). August 17, 2020. Retrieved August 17, 2020.
Sanya Jain (August 17, 2020). "Elon Musk Is Begging - Yes, Begging - To Be Trashed On Wikipedia. True Story". NDTV. Retrieved August 17, 2020.
Stephen Harrison (May 3, 2022). "The Controversy Brewing on Elon Musk's Wikipedia Page". Slate. Retrieved May 3, 2022.
Dave Lee (October 26, 2023). "Now Elon Musk is attacking Wikipedia". Australian Financial Review. Retrieved October 31, 2023.
CT Jones (October 24, 2023). "Elon Musk Offers to Also Ruin Wikipedia". Rolling Stone. Retrieved November 5, 2023.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of Elon Musk's submarine was copied or moved into Elon Musk with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Section sizes

Section size for Elon Musk (46 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	8,896	8,896
Early life and education	29	25,237
Childhood and family	13,797	13,797
Education	11,411	11,411
Business career	1,317	123,558
Zip2	4,050	4,050
X.com and PayPal	5,463	5,463
SpaceX	11,476	23,265
Starlink	11,789	11,789
Tesla	18,561	36,375
SEC and shareholder lawsuits regarding tweets	10,525	10,525
SolarCity and Tesla Energy	7,289	7,289
Neuralink	9,032	9,032
The Boring Company	5,160	5,160
Twitter / X	29,452	29,452
Leadership style	9,444	9,444
Other activities	21	45,582
Musk Foundation	8,350	8,350
Hyperloop	8,149	8,149
OpenAI and xAI	5,375	5,375
Tham Luang cave rescue and defamation case	9,855	9,855
2018 cannabis incident	2,138	2,138
Music	2,809	2,809
Private jet	6,556	6,556
Company towns	2,329	2,329
Wealth	1,214	1,214
Personal actions, views, and social media usage	7,120	116,588
Finance	7,494	7,494
Technology	5,845	5,845
Existential threats	14,327	14,327
Politics	25,479	54,157
Conservative PAC activities	8,030	8,030
International politics	20,043	20,043
Government advisory roles	605	605
Accusations of antisemitism	12,895	12,895
COVID-19	14,750	14,750
Personal life	6,883	47,835
Relationships and children	21,151	21,151
Legal matters after 2020	19,801	19,801
Public perception	16,728	16,728
Notes and references	25	80
Notes	26	26
Citations	29	29
Works cited	1,501	1,501
Further reading	1,608	1,608
External links	5,927	5,927
Total	394,754	394,754

This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the all-time Top 100 list. It has had 108 million views since December 2007.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 62 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Where is the apology for the anitsemitic theory?

I'm trying to verify the second half of this: "endorsing an antisemitic theory; he has since apologized for the latter". I can't find this statement in the article, which is a violation of WP:LEAD. There are three sources cited but the words "apologize" and "sorry" don't appear in any of them. In fact one of them says "Despite widespread criticism, Musk has not backed off his antisemitic claims" which is kind of the opposite of an apology. I see this was already discussed on the talk page in June but that discussion doesn't answer the question. GA-RT-22 (talk) 20:49, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, I found it, in the "Accusations of antisemitism" section. Not sure how I missed it before. I still think it's misleading to have three refs in the lead, none of which support the preceding material, and if I get ambitious I'll try to fix that. GA-RT-22 (talk) 21:40, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mr.Musk needs a new portrait

Mr. Musk needs a new portrait. I am aware of the survey at the top but consider that he has changed tremendously since 2018. Please make a second survey or give him a new portrait all together, suggest Opinion E. Thank you. Sincerely, a random IP User. 2601:483:400:1CD0:4012:42FA:169B:52B8 (talk) 03:32, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I would like to suggest that Musk be described as "a business magnate, oligarch, and investor known for his key roles in the space company SpaceX and the automotive company Tesla, Inc."

This more accurately describes his role in the economy, media, and politics. Firecat93 (talk) 17:21, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:23, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

oligarch, no. He is not an oligarch. 98.193.60.125 (talk) 01:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oligarch?

I would like to suggest that Musk be described as "a business magnate, oligarch, and investor known for his key roles in the space company SpaceX and the automotive company Tesla, Inc."

This more accurately describes his role in the economy, media, and politics, as Musk, the richest person in the world, controls X, spent hundreds of millions in the U.S. election, and has been promised a major regulatory role in the upcoming U.S. administration.

Firecat93 (talk) 17:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does it, I disagree. It seems to be that he may be an oligarch soon, but he is not one yet. And business Magnet has been rejected more than once, as he is not often referred as that (or oligarch). Slatersteven (talk) 18:00, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An oligarch is "a very rich business leader with a great deal of political influence." Why wouldn't Musk meet this criteria? Firecat93 (talk) 18:10, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ask RS, as they need to say he is. Slatersteven (talk) 18:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who is RS? Firecat93 (talk) 18:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

wp:rs reliable sources. Slatersteven (talk) 18:40, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You may want to read MOS:OPENPARABIO, which documents how we describe people in the opening paragraph of a biography. GA-RT-22 (talk) 20:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see many reliable sources which clearly and unambiguously call him an oligarch so I do not think its appropriate. What might be appropriate now is "known for his key roles in the space company SpaceX and the automotive company Tesla, Inc as well as his support of Donald Trump in the 2024 Election." if you want to highlight his seemingly newfound political superstardom (it does seem due to do so). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree. That's perhaps a better alternative. Firecat93 (talk) 22:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would be opposed to that. His support of Trump isn't part of what makes him notable. GA-RT-22 (talk) 23:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're confusing what someone first became notable for with why they are currently notable. In the last two years the political stuff has gotten as much significant coverage as his involvement with all his companies in that same time period combined, I'm not saying I agree with the relative importance (I tend to think that the media undercovers technology and overcovers politics) but we follow the coverage. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree with Horse Eye's Back. I believe we have reached a consensus. Firecat93 (talk) 04:12, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a consensus here. GA-RT-22 (talk) 05:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Let us put it up for a vote. Do you have an argument against including it? It has generated significant media coverage. Musk's election related content has generated billions of views. Firecat93 (talk) 06:27, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFC? OK. Slatersteven (talk) 11:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, can you please initiate it? Firecat93 (talk) 11:36, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I said OK, why do you need to ask? Slatersteven (talk) 11:38, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am unfamiliar with the process. I am relatively new to Wikipedia. Sorry. Firecat93 (talk) 11:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I;ll try, but remember I am not you. Slatersteven (talk) 11:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Second. QRep2020 (talk) 07:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment on expanding description.

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Should we add "as well as his support of Donald Trump in the 2024 Election." after ""known for his key roles in the space company SpaceX and the automotive company Tesla, Inc "? Slatersteven (talk) 11:52, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion (Request for comment on expanding description)

Oppose – Not in the first sentence, per MOS:FIRSTBIO. I would be ok putting it in the opening paragraph as long as it doesn't just duplicate what's in the last paragraph. GA-RT-22 (talk) 13:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: this would be pure WP:RECENTISM. It is way too early to say if his current notoriety as a Trump supporter will be a long-term factor in his overall notability. The existing mention in the final paragraph of the lead is sufficient. Rosbif73 (talk) 13:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. (Summoned by bot) Not in the lead sentence per MOS:FIRSTBIO. The support contributes to Musk's notability, but did not make Musk notable. The support should be mentioned later in the lead section, just not in the opening paragraph as that would be recentism. Politrukki (talk) 14:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, genuinely not seeing how you can use MOS:FIRSTBIO and WP:RECENTISM to oppose inclusion... This would be the "One, or possibly more, noteworthy positions, activities, or roles that the person is mainly known for, avoiding subjective or contentious terms." that we cover in addition to "The main reason the person is notable (key accomplishment, record, etc.)" Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:19, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not the main thing he is known for. If he gets a position in Trump's cabinet, I would support including that in the opening paragraph. QuicoleJR (talk) 20:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not in the first sentence, possibly later included in the first paragraph. At this point in time, it's too soon to tell if this description will be notable enough to include. According to Views of Elon Musk, he supported Obama in 2008/2012 and Hillary in 2016, and Biden in 2020, and now Trump in 2024. He's all over the place, and we aren't on a deadline. Isaidnoway (talk) 11:21, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Musk has played a major role in the Trump campaign, including through X, which he owns, and this has contributed to his notoriety. Firecat93 (talk) 16:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: per MOS:FIRSTBIO, this is not the main reason for Musk's notability, not even close. If it goes anywhere it should be towards the end of the lead. TarnishedPath^talk 07:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose undue recentism --FMSky (talk) 07:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - His support of Donald Trump is already mentioned in the bottom of the lead, which to me seems more appropriate. I recommending adding more to this, and even a small paragraph of its own, if and when he is part of the government in an official role. ^🦄✨bedazzledunicorn^✨🦄 20:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose -This is not a significant achievement, and Musk has many significant achievements. Hogo-2020 (talk) 06:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Trump seems to have named Musk to a new unofficial position related to his admin, so it seems likely that his ties to Trump and to politics in general will become a bigger part of his persona as the next years go by. For now, though, I think it's too early to have a good overview. WikiFouf (talk) 15:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 November 2024

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Reverse titles of 1997 baccalaureate degrees FROM Bachelor of Arts in Physics and Bachelor of Science in Economics TO Bachelor of Science in Physics and Bachelor of Arts in Economics.^[1] 47.45.77.8 (talk) 07:41, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a more complete citation that could be used to verify this? I was unable to verify the current wording despite there being six sources cited. But a few of them say that BA in Physics is correct. GA-RT-22 (talk) 13:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ University of Pennsylvania website

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. M.Bitton (talk) 21:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 November 2024

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Change "Despite both Musk and Errol previously stating that" to "Despite both Elon and Errol previously stating that"

Using the last name for Elon and the first name for his father is unnatural, especially because they have the same last name. 57.132.191.74 (talk) 15:22, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done Alpacaaviator (talk) 21:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Business career

business career is too long. it needs an another page and to be trimmed here. Loveforwiki (talk) 15:41, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a bad idea. I split it off to Draft:Business career of Elon Musk for consideration. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great. we can trim it from main page. Loveforwiki (talk) 09:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal

An IP suggested adding a new image and removing the current one (2018 isn't yesterday). I would like to take this opportunity and propose to create a new survey; I'm in favour of the following image:

JacktheBrown (talk) 00:54, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The previous rfc closed ten days ago. It's too soon for another one. GA-RT-22 (talk) 00:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am in favor of the 2022 image as well. 2018 was seven years ago, and he looks way different now than he did then. Shoot for the Stars (talk) 05:13, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

DOGE does not exist

Dept of government efficiency does not exist and nobody was appointed to it yet since Trump is not yet President. None of these things are a fact as of today (11/12/24) 2603:7080:7006:67EF:11CA:974:93D3:409E (talk) 06:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think the wording needs to be changed to make it clear that this is an appointment to a yet-to-be-created position. Do we have any reliable sources stating when the department of government efficiency will be created? Presumably Trump cannot officially create this during the transition? Rosbif73 (talk) 10:10, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We should not engage in speculation, no leave this out until it becomes a thing. Slatersteven (talk) 10:44, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Republican?

All the sources I can find refer to Musk as a registered independent, not a Republican. CalvinCoolidge228 (talk) 16:47, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it from the infobox. He's allied himself with Trump, but there's no evidence he has changed his registration to Republican. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:52, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe Musk has stated publicly that he's aligned with Republicans now (and I'm guessing RSs have reported on it). Surely, since he's unironically stated such a shift, it would override outdated sources? Kcmastrpc (talk) 17:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Amercica has an odd system, but is not his started affiliation not like party membership, he is registredas an independent? Slatersteven (talk) 17:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Political adviser"

It's frankly too soon to name him as this, but upon the creation of the Department of Government Efficiency, should he be referred to as a political adviser? a political pundit? of a time long enough, Elon Musk has been quite active within politics, and his effect is grand enough. Barnt Toust 22:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 November 2024

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Add Elon Musk’s political party and fix the current error with his designated office, says “Assumed” instead of “Assuming”. Vlklng (talk) 23:34, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If he’s a registered independent, that is what his political party should be. Vlklng (talk) 23:35, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: Musk's political affiliations are complex, and we've written quite a lot about the topic. I don't think we should be so quick to summarize his party in the infobox as "Independent" when that could be misleading—particularly with the amount of coverage he's received lately as one of republican president-elect Donald Trump's top supporters. Also, the "Assumed office" text is a standard part of the {{Infobox officeholder}} template and can't really be changed here. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 01:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 November 2024

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In October 2024 Tesla loses a Court Battle in a Swedish Labor Dispute. A district court ruled that Sweden's constitution prevented it from taking a side in a labor dispute between Tesla and local unions that has dragged on for 11 months. Steenskadhede (talk) 10:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — BerryForPerpetuity (talk) 15:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To protect Elon’s page while adding things that aren’t yet true decreases Wikipedia credibility. There is also an entire page to a department that is not yet created. He is NOT yet a commissioner of anything. As the efficiency commission nor department has been established. This is different than a nominee to an existing dept. other pages include a line that points to the announcement. Please correct and stop protecting polarizing people - just because maybe the head editor is a fan. I have noticed others not protected Punachar (talk) 18:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just what are you on about, @Punachar? Barnt Toust 20:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry was it not clear? This commission doesn’t exists. Whereas actual nominees like Tulsi Gabbard those pages don’t seem to be protected. If Elon is now in the public realm it makes no sense to protect bogus information on his website Punachar (talk) 01:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Government infobox

Given that his position in DOGE is considered “outside the government” by various reliable sources, should we keep the government infobox? 107.115.171.128 (talk) 00:59, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anti-communist categories

@MagicatthemovieS has re-added three categories to the article: American, Canadian and South African anti-communists, claiming that [t]he article mentions that he hates his kid's supposed communism. I see no such mention, nor any reliable sources stating that Musk is actively anti-communist. Am I missing something? Rosbif73 (talk) 08:28, 15 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk". The Joe Rogan Experience. September 6, 2018. Event occurs at 9:53. Retrieved October 2, 2020 – via YouTube.

[2] University of Pennsylvania website

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